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4.3 Item Information

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This ticket is in response to the release notes for the latest alpha version of EnhSim.
 
You say no'kaled procs are modeled as "a yellow attack without the ability to dodge and the damage can crit." This is rather vague. How, specifically, is the proc modeled in regards to crit % and crit damage bonus? A quick run of the sim with the default config seems to indicate that the proc is using melee crit chance, but everything I have seen so far indicates that the proc crits for 150% damage and uses your spell crit chance for crit frequency determination. I haven't seen enough information to say how it behaves with hit and expertise, but the log I'm including appears to not be spell hit capped (poisons are missing), and despite that the No'kaled procs are successfully connecting 100% of the time.
 
Here's a log for reference on No'kaled proc information: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2hponatq0ydpltr7/details/13/
 
Also, the modeling for Vial of Shadows seems off. From what I saw on the PTR, the proc scales at a rate of +1 AP = +0.9 average damage (this is exactly (33+1/3)% better than the observed scaling of the strength trinket (+1 AP = +0.675 average damage), presumably to counteract the advantage the strength trinket has in AE situations). The proc appears to crit for 200% damage (not 150% as indicated by the EnhSim release notes).
 
Here's a log for reference on Vial of Shadows proc information: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/87cwp7i2248y3ty9/details/0/

comments

Flapjack wrote Nov 28, 2011 at 3:21 PM

More information:

Each version of Vial of Shadows actually has its own, unique attack power coefficient.

ilvl 384: +1 AP = +0.797 damage
ilvl 397: +1 AP = +0.900 damage
ilvl 410: +1 AP = +1.016 damage

Flapjack wrote Nov 30, 2011 at 10:54 PM

Vial of Shadows procs can be dodged and parried. Looks like hunters can't catch a break.

www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l0tzvlfosprc2u1b/xe/?x=sourcename+%3D+%22Exx%22%0D%0Aand+spell+%3D+%22Lightning+Strike%22

Ziff wrote Dec 1, 2011 at 3:36 AM

A yellow attack is term indicating that it is a melee special attack. It gets that name becuase your damage number show up in yellow text in game. The main difference of a yellow attack is that it won't have any chance to do a glancing hit, so it can only miss, dodge, parry, block, crit or hit. Because the sim assumes you are attacking from behind, parry and block also go off of the table and you are just left with miss, dodge, crit or hit.

With that, I have No'kaled using the melee crit chance, like you surmised above. From that log, since poisons are missing and they use the spell hit chance, I think that indicates that it's using the yellow hit attack table. Since that table doesn't take a dual wield penalty the you only need 8% hit to cap yellow misses, and I'm betting that is under the dual wield hit cap but definitely is yellow hit capped.

Now on Vial of shadows, I have it initially set to do a 1:1 ratio of AP to damage no matter the level. I haven't really seen anything else indicating the ratio difference. Where did you find out those numbers? Damn strange on the crit bonus on Vial of Shadows. It's a melee attack with a 200% crit rate. I'll make that update.

Oh and thanks for tracking down this info

Flapjack wrote Dec 1, 2011 at 6:28 AM

I just spent 42 minutes attacking a boss-level target dummy with a No'kaled equipped, and critical strikes for Flameblast, Iceblast and Shadowblast averaged 5.7% of total procs. It's definitely not following melee crit chance in-game.

Calculating the AP coefficient of the Vial of Shadows trinket procs is rather simple. I just looked at the tooltip of each version of the trinket (taken from dungeon journal tooltips), subtracted the displayed average hit from the baseline (taken from wowhead tooltip) and divided the difference by my character sheet attack power. You'll notice that each successive coefficient is roughly 13% more powerful than the last, which is expected given the 13 ilvl increments.

Ziff wrote Dec 1, 2011 at 8:17 AM

That's strange with No'kaled's crit rate. It's not using melee crit obviously, and it's not going to be spell crit either with that low of crit rate. It also not using the default 3% crit rate like our puppies do. Hmm, that's a strange one.

Flapjack wrote Dec 1, 2011 at 9:23 AM

Well, I only have 7.97% unbuffed spell crit chance on my character sheet, so it isn't too far off, especially if there's crit suppression. Over the same time period, my flame shock ticks also averaged out to a 5.7% crit rate, so that seems consistent with the weapon procs operating off of spell crit chance.

Here's a log of an enhancement shaman dual-wielding no'kaled in a raid environment.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z1ttuk2asnj06qf8/details/5/?enc=bosses

His average crit rate with no'kaled procs was 13.9% across the whole raid, which again roughly matches up with the observed crit rate of flame shock (11.8% direct damage, 15.8% ticks).

Ziff wrote Dec 2, 2011 at 7:53 AM

OK, that's pretty good confirmation for me that it's using spell crit rate at least. Now I guess the question is can it miss? Assuming it's using the spell hit table, can you run a test with low spell hit to see if you are getting any proc misses? I'm not sure if it's able to miss though. I'll do an update with both sets of information this weekend and push out a version. Btw, thanks again for looking into this.

Flapjack wrote Dec 2, 2011 at 8:40 PM

I just did a 25-minute test against the target dummy with no'kaled in my mainhand but otherwise naked and untalented (had 1% hit from draenei racial and 0 expertise). During this time, I saw 52 no'kaled procs with a 100% connection rate (zero misses or dodges). I guess it makes sense for the proc to act in this manner, because whether or not the proc even happens is already checked against the ability for the mainhand weapon to hit in the first place.

By chance, I also noticed a possible inconsistency between the game and the simulator in regards to unleash elements: windfury. During this same period, I cast unleash elements 88 times, and it wasn't dodged a single time (EnhSim currently seems believe the ability can be dodged). It might be more accurate to model unleash windfury as a ranged ability. In spite of that (using my previous 45-minute parse for more data), the ability still appears to crit at the same rate as our melee specials, so the elemental devastation tooltip saying it only applies to melee abilities might not be accurate.

Ziff wrote Dec 5, 2011 at 3:19 AM

OK, with changelist # 63896 I should have Vial of Shadows and No'kaled straightened out. For the Unleash Wind issue, why don't you open up a separate ticket so we can track it by itself. I don't want to turn this ticket into a running list.

Flapjack wrote Dec 5, 2011 at 7:24 AM

Confirming that unleash wind can proc no'kaled.

Flapjack wrote Dec 5, 2011 at 11:55 PM

More No'kaled information:

It appears that stormstrike is capable of triggering up to 3 no'kaled procs when dual-wielding: one from the mainhand portion of stormstrike (from mainhand no'kaled), one from the off-hand portion of stormstrike (from off-hand no'kaled), and one from the debuff refresh/application (from either hand).

[18:21:58.079] Beth'tilac's Stormstrike is refreshed by Scraperbike
[18:21:58.079] Scraperbike Stormstrike Beth'tilac 29544
[18:21:58.079] Scraperbike Stormstrike Off-Hand Beth'tilac 7135
[18:21:58.844] Scraperbike Flameblast Beth'tilac 22152
[18:21:58.844] Scraperbike Shadowblast Beth'tilac 9972
[18:21:58.844] Scraperbike Iceblast Beth'tilac 20769

Reference log:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z1ttuk2asnj06qf8/xe/?enc=bosses&x=sourcename+%3D+%22Scraperbike%22%0D%0Aand+spell+%3D+%22Stormstrike%22%0D%0Aor+spell+%3D+%22Stormstrike+Off-Hand%22%0D%0Aor+spell+%3D+%22Flameblast%22%0D%0Aor+spell+%3D+%22Iceblast%22%0D%0Aor+spell+%3D+%22Shadowblast%22

Ziff wrote Dec 12, 2011 at 8:08 PM

No'kaled is already set-up to proc on any auto attack damage or special damage. So Stormstrike or Lava Lash will proc it in the current sim, with Windfury explicitly not allowed to proc No'Kaled. The only thing missing is Unleash Wind, which we are handling in other thread. The interesting thing is the triple proc. I'm going to have to scan through that log and try to figure that one out. That's especially weird since the weapon is clearly marked to only proc from melee damage.

Ziff wrote Dec 12, 2011 at 9:17 PM

Something is very strange with that parse. Take a look at this section:

[18:30:06.218] Beth'tilac's Stormfire is refreshed by Scraperbike
[18:30:06.218] Beth'tilac's Stormstrike is refreshed by Scraperbike
[18:30:06.218] Scraperbike Stormstrike Beth'tilac 35869
[18:30:06.218] Scraperbike Stormstrike Off-Hand Beth'tilac 9036
[18:30:06.573] Scraperbike gains Maelstrom Weapon (3) from Scraperbike
[18:30:06.573] Scraperbike's Flurry is refreshed by Scraperbike
[18:30:06.609] Scraperbike gains Maelstrom Weapon (4) from Scraperbike
[18:30:06.609] Scraperbike's Flurry is refreshed by Scraperbike
[18:30:06.609] Scraperbike gains 1172 mana from Scraperbike's Primal Wisdom
[18:30:06.609] Scraperbike gains 1171 mana from Scraperbike's Primal Wisdom
[18:30:06.986] Scraperbike Iceblast Beth'tilac 15947
[18:30:06.986] Scraperbike Flametongue Attack Beth'tilac 4639
[18:30:06.986] Scraperbike Shadowblast Beth'tilac 19798
[18:30:06.986] Scraperbike Iceblast Beth'tilac 14807
[18:30:06.986] Scraperbike Flametongue Attack Beth'tilac 4639

Now if you look at around this section, Scraperbike definitely had windfury and flametongue imbues on both weapons. So how is Flametongue Attack procing twice during this section? Stormstrike should only proc Flametongue Attack from one weapon, so what is causing the other proc. This might indicate what is causing the triple proc of No'Kaled. For example, is Flametongue weapon capable of procing No'Kaled? I don't think so, but we're gonna need more testing to be sure. Definitely a strange proc ability on this weapon.

Flapjack wrote Dec 13, 2011 at 5:30 PM

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/yyuct5psx5m4g045/details/7/

Here's another log that might be helpful. In that parse, no'kaled is only present in the mainhand, but you still see double procs off of stormstrike. Additionally, stormstrike is the only attack being used, so it's pretty easy to determine where the procs are coming from.

I'm almost positive that flametongue weapon CANNOT proc no'kaled. You'll notice that no'kaled procs follow the attack/ability that triggered the proc after an 800-1200ms delay. Flametongue and no'kaled procs occurring at the same millisecond indicates that flametongue was not the source of the no'kaled proc(s).

Flapjack wrote Dec 16, 2011 at 7:31 PM

I logged a similar issue on simulationcraft's website:

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/issues/detail?id=1031&can=1&sort=-id

It appears that they were already modeling the stormstrike debuff as being capable of procing no'kaled (using the mainhand weapon as the source of its procs).

Ziff wrote Dec 17, 2011 at 3:28 AM

Yeah, looking at doing stormstrike with fluid death equipped, we are definitely getting 3 stacks from each Stormstrike. So it looks like the Stormstrike debuff is treated as a melee attack that can proc trinkets. The only interesting thing is that it will only count as a melee attack from the main hand. Here's what I tested with Fluid Death equipped, all facing sideways on a raid dummy to remove auto-attacks:

Both hands equipped: Stormstrike causes three stacks of Fluid Death
Main hand equipped: Stormstrike cause two stacks of Fluid Death
Off hand equipped: Stormstrike causes one stack of Fluid Death

In all cases, the Stormstrike debuff still shows up on the raid dummy, but just when there is a main hand equipped will it proc Fluid Death.

I'll open up a separate ticket for this, since this is now a generic issue from anything related to 4.3 or No'Kaled.

Ziff wrote Dec 18, 2011 at 1:29 AM

There's actually one other item I'd like to figure out with No'Kaled, and that's with how it interacts with Stormstrike when it's in the offhand. From your earlier tests, it seems that when dual wielding, the Stormstrike debuff is treated as a main attack, so it would only do an extra proc when it's equipped in the main hand. What I'd like to test out is if the Stormstrike debuff is treated as an off-hand attack if you only have a No'Kaled in your off-hand. Basically, if you have no main hand, but have No'Kaled equipped in the off-hand will Stormstrike still have a chance to proc No'Kaled twice or just once.

Flapjack wrote Dec 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM

I'm only seeing single procs of no'kaled off of stormstrike while it is equipped in the off-hand.

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